Monday, August 8, 2011

Public Discussion, Why Would We Want To Do That?

Anyone who has been to a Middletown Township Committee meeting this past year has noticed a marked difference between meetings held this year and meetings from the past 4 years,the difference being the length of meeting, or how long the the meeting took to end.

This year,Township Committee meetings (the typical business portion, after all the pomp and circumstance) are typically over in a hour or less. While in the past (when Democrats Patrick Short and Sean Byrnes were seated) Township meetings lasted a couple of hours.

The reason for this dramatic change in meeting times has become very evident over the past 8 months, agenda items listed as up for discussion are very seldom if ever discussed during these public meetings and Committee members have nothing to say to the public during "comments".

In the past, Patrick Short and Sean Byrnes made it a point discuss items on the agenda during public meetings and because of their practice of informing residents through the discussion of agenda items, they were attacked by the majority for being "unprepared" and not reading through their meeting packets, which was never the case. To the contrary, Short and Byrnes were well prepared to discuss items in the public forum and were chastised for it.

So now, during the last Middletown Workshop meeting when resident Donna Kuntz stated that she was there to here what the Committee had to say about "easements", which was Discussion item "B" on the night's agenda, and wanted to know why nothing on the Discussion Item list was discussed, our acting mayor, Tony Fiore, basically stated there was no need to discuss items in a public forum. Committee members, if they have a question after receiving the meeting packets on the Friday before a meeting, call each other or the Township Administrator for clarification.

Listen to the audio:


As long as a quorum is not present, this type of behavior by elected officials is not in violation of any sunshine laws, but it is a rather dubious practice that keeps the sunshine from shining on those that administer the town. Any time you limit the input or knowledge of residents into how their town is run, is a direct attempt to limit the transparency of government and is a troubling practice to engage in and Middletown seems to do a lot of it.


You can read about this and other news from the last workshop meeting by reading the "It's Your Town" newsletter, its the next best thing to actually attending the meeting.

16 comments:

Anonymous said...

Qualifications to be a TC member today in Middletown,N.J.:

1-Arrogance
2- Insolent
3=Disdainful toward the townspeople
4-Secretive
5-Forgetful of whom they were elected to represent
6-Ignorant
7- Know the "Peter Carton March"
8- Be willing to stab even your mother in the back
9- If you don't know the" Carton March",the "Nelson Waltz" will be acceptable in it's place
10- Lack of respect for the law and the rights of the people.

ISN"T THAT CLEAR ENOUGH so far.....wanna add more ?? Go right ahead,election season is upon us !

Anonymous said...

Gerry is obviously under a Carton (maybe even Christie) gag order. And the overall Republican strategy is to say nothing in public that can be questioned or challenged. So, instead it is all said behind closed doors in back room meetings. One party governemnt with no accountability to another party perspective, as a check and balance, has been back in town for eight months.
It has been party first and taxpayer second for thirty years.

Anonymous said...

Telephoning each member of the committee to discuss items and avoid open public discussion is called a rolling quorum and is a violation of the sunshine law and open public meeting act. Middletown is one of the biggest violators of this act because the manner in which they choose to do business without having transparency in government.

Anonymous said...

Telephoning each member of the committee to discuss items and avoid open public discussion is called a rolling quorum and is a violation of the sunshine law and open public meeting act. Middletown is one of the biggest violators of this act because the manner in which they choose to do business without having transparency in government.

Legion said...

One of the unintended consequences of laws like this is to increase the reliance on a political subdivision's professionals.

The Administrator, the CFO, the Attorney and other employees can meet and discuss and plan without limit, with the resulting suggested actions/resolutions and ordinances presented to the legislative body for a vote.

The highly politically charged atmosphere in most towns and counties makes it impossible for an elected official to have a frank and open discussion, thus, most times, in all towns, there isn't a dimes worth of difference between members of the same party's members on a board, committee or council.

So, it creates a power shift to the professionals, the appointed officials, and away from the elected ones who have the final say, but are constrained by the pure partisanship of their opposition from fully exercising it.

This is not just in Middletown, nor is it a party thing. This is just the result of the OPMA.

Anonymous said...

Legion,

All of the planning and discussion done by professionals with the suggested action steps is not presented to the a committee or council for a vote. First, it is presented for discussion and debate in public before the vote.

The public part is so citizens can participate in the full process.

Your point about frank and open official conversation in public being impossible because of a politically charged atmosphere misses the mark. The public debate is about government not politics. The officials are elected with the assumption that they have the courage and the integrity to take a public stand for what they think and say. When it comes to public heat, being a whimp is not an option for an elected official.

Another party's perspective can make a whole lot of difference in local governemt. We live with a two, or multiple, party system. Diversity is an American value, along with openness and honesty. Backroom conversation and deals may be a political practice, it is not an American value.

Anonymous said...

The clowns that sit on the Middletown Township Committee have NO REGARD for the laws or the just practice of those laws for government of the people,by the people or for the people.

Middletown has a gestapo republican regime !!!! A dictatorship in practice.

Legion said...

Anon at 2:08

You're talking about what those who wrote the OPMA intended as opposed to the reality I presented.

The fact is that because of politics these discussions don't happen too often in public meetings, and, because of the law, they're not allowed to happen in private.

Thus, the professionals are more important in the process than they might otherwise be.

Whether this is good or bad is a matter of opinion. It would be nice if the politicians of any party would react differently, but they have an incentive to get re-elected, and their opposition will jump all over any real open debate, so we get what we get...

Anon at 4:31 --

Try winning an election...

Anonymous said...

Legion.

Not running for any office so winning an election is not my concern!!

Interested in good government and that's not what exists in Middletown Township today and not what has existed for a very long time in this community.

Time for the American Civil Liberties Union to investigate government or the excuse for government we have here today.

Treading on the people's rights in this community seems to be what this TC does best.

Don't like my opinions, tough cookies.I don't like yours either !

Legion said...

Anon at 9:50

Whether we have good government in Middletown is a subjective opinion. I believe that we do, you believe that we don't.

For the last generation, the voters in Middletown have seen fit to elect Republican majorities to the TC, so it seems that your opinion is in the minority.

If you have some examples of "people's rights" being abused, real examples as opposed to made up stuff, by all means, bring them forward and we can discuss them because I know it is not the intention of anyone who is an elected or appointed official in town to abuse citizen's rights.

But, I suspect that you will just contine to make spurious attacks and offer nothing of substance...

Anonymous said...

Legion,

What those who wrote OPMA intended was that it would be the job of the elected to enforce OPMA. The elected lead; the professionals do the work.

If the elected are unable to lead, then by default the professionals have more power. So if your experience and opinion are based on how Middletown Township conducts business, then your perspective on OPMA is informed by what happens when the elected representatives fail to lead. Leadership in Middletown is asleep at the switch.

Anonymous said...

Politics aside gentlemen. When a citizen attends the meetings perhaps they are there to educate themselves on a subject of interest.

Personally I like to hear what my elected public officials have to say when they do have input.

If there is no need for a discussion of a discussion item at a public meeting perhaps the same information sheet which is given to our elected officials in their packets can be put out for public display at the meetings. Some of us that may have some first hand personal experience on a particuliar matter may have some valuable input.

Anonymous said...

Legion,

You are a conniving,hypocritical farce and no one owes you any explanations about the way they think or feel about government where they reside.
Just who the hell do you think you are anyway? I'll tell you...if you are who I think you are, you are part of the problem in this town. You and the others like you who bully and tread on anyone who gets in your way or disagrees with you or them.

You'd be much happier in a communist country where no one has a right to an opinion but you or so you seem to think.

We all know exactly who you are and you are one of these days going to get exactly what you deserve and that's long overdue. You have been the perpetrator and the beneficiary of some of the injustices done to many of the people who reside in this town. Your vicious tongue needs to take a rest....more like a hike !

Anonymous said...

Legion,
Reality is in the mind of the perceiver. I think your reality is designed to use questionable reasoning to justify why the intended reality behind OPMA law doesn't work. You are attempting to justify why it is OK to break OPMA law. Are you a member of the Middletown T.C. or possibly their mouth-piece?

Legion said...

Anon at 5:09

You're right that reality is in the mind of the perceiver.

As a student of politics I look at the causes and effects of actions in our political bodies.

If your political opponents are going to jump all over any open discussion of an issue and you can avoid doing that... Well, that's what you'll do.

And, because the law doesn't allow private discussion amongst the deliberative body, those discussions don't happen.

My guess is that you look at that same situation and see evil intent, a willful and planned subversion of the law just so that the very few people who come out to meetings can't share in their government in action... More's the pity.

Laws can have unintended consequences. Anyone who has lived in New Jersey for even ten minutes can see examples of that all over the place. This well intentioned law causes more reliance on a municipalities professional staff than on the elected officials.

Like I've said, that may be better or worse, but this is NOT the result the lawmakers thought they would get.

Where you see evil, I see a logical human reaction to external stimuli...

Anonymous said...

Legion.

IF BULLSHIT WERE MONEY.....YOU WOULD BE RICH !!!!

SO WOULD YOUR PALS ON THE TC COMMITTEE.