Greg Sargent of Talking Points Memo wraps up last nights debate between Joe Biden and Sarah Palin pretty well and I agree with him.
"Many people will analyze this debate by asking whether Sarah Palin outdid her previous disastrous interview performances, and hence proved she just might have the mettle to be a Vice President, after all.
But a better way to decide who "won" tonight is this: Which Veep candidate most forcefully made the case against the opposing presidential candidate?
By that standard, the winner by that measure was unquestionably Joe Biden. He made a far stronger case against John McCain than Sarah Palin did against Barack Obama. It wasn't even close.
Tellingly, Biden was the first to target the other ticket's presidential candidate, laying into McCain over his "fundamentals of the economy" gaffe, a core contrast point for the Obama campaign. That immediately forced Palin to go on the defensive -- in the context of a discussion of the presidential candidates -- which she did with the silly argument that McCain's "fundamentals" line was a reference to American workers.
Biden also drew a devastatingly sharp contrast between Obama and McCain on Iraq. While Biden admittedly wasn't at his best at times during the first half, when the debate drifted onto foreign policy turf, Biden clearly found his footing, and then some. He stared right into the camera as he made the case as clearly as you could ask for.
"We're spending $10 billion a month while the Iraqis have an $80 billion surplus. Barack says it's time for them to spend their own money," he said. "This is a fundamental difference between us: We will end this war. For John McCain, there is no end in sight to end this war. Fundamental difference: We will end this war." And Biden hit a very strong riff on how McCain's foreign policies are indistinguishable from those of George W. Bush.
To be clear, Palin did outperform in many ways tonight, and did clear a basic competence bar. She was far more in command of the material than she has been in her catastrophic interviews. And there's no reason to doubt the reports we're hearing about relief and even elation in Republican and conservative circles.
It's also true that Palin did get in some blows on Obama, hitting him somewhat effectively over his willingness to meet with foreign leaders and blasting him for waving the "white flag of surrender" in Iraq.
But here's the key: Even on those issues where Palin did score with base-pleasing hits on Obama or Biden, the unshakable reality underlying all this is that public opinion agrees with the Obama-Biden view on the core questions discussed tonight. And Biden seemed to proceed from a firm understanding of this point, articulating a big-picture contrast between Obama and McCain on the economy and on foreign policy with gusto and intensity.
That will prove far more consequential than whatever narrow success Palin had in outdoing previous expectations, and in proving her own baseline competence. And as a result -- this being a race between two would be presidents, after all -- the public will give this debate to Biden by sizable margins."
But a better way to decide who "won" tonight is this: Which Veep candidate most forcefully made the case against the opposing presidential candidate?
By that standard, the winner by that measure was unquestionably Joe Biden. He made a far stronger case against John McCain than Sarah Palin did against Barack Obama. It wasn't even close.
Tellingly, Biden was the first to target the other ticket's presidential candidate, laying into McCain over his "fundamentals of the economy" gaffe, a core contrast point for the Obama campaign. That immediately forced Palin to go on the defensive -- in the context of a discussion of the presidential candidates -- which she did with the silly argument that McCain's "fundamentals" line was a reference to American workers.
Biden also drew a devastatingly sharp contrast between Obama and McCain on Iraq. While Biden admittedly wasn't at his best at times during the first half, when the debate drifted onto foreign policy turf, Biden clearly found his footing, and then some. He stared right into the camera as he made the case as clearly as you could ask for.
"We're spending $10 billion a month while the Iraqis have an $80 billion surplus. Barack says it's time for them to spend their own money," he said. "This is a fundamental difference between us: We will end this war. For John McCain, there is no end in sight to end this war. Fundamental difference: We will end this war." And Biden hit a very strong riff on how McCain's foreign policies are indistinguishable from those of George W. Bush.
To be clear, Palin did outperform in many ways tonight, and did clear a basic competence bar. She was far more in command of the material than she has been in her catastrophic interviews. And there's no reason to doubt the reports we're hearing about relief and even elation in Republican and conservative circles.
It's also true that Palin did get in some blows on Obama, hitting him somewhat effectively over his willingness to meet with foreign leaders and blasting him for waving the "white flag of surrender" in Iraq.
But here's the key: Even on those issues where Palin did score with base-pleasing hits on Obama or Biden, the unshakable reality underlying all this is that public opinion agrees with the Obama-Biden view on the core questions discussed tonight. And Biden seemed to proceed from a firm understanding of this point, articulating a big-picture contrast between Obama and McCain on the economy and on foreign policy with gusto and intensity.
That will prove far more consequential than whatever narrow success Palin had in outdoing previous expectations, and in proving her own baseline competence. And as a result -- this being a race between two would be presidents, after all -- the public will give this debate to Biden by sizable margins."
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